This is a minute-by-minute summary of highlights of the conversation between four people: Heather Schott, Les Cody, Jaco Booyens, and Dr. Brown, at Mercy Culture Church. I did the difficult chore of listening to them so you don’t have to slog through 3:27:06. You can read this summary faster than listening to the video.
You can also read it faster than the analyses of the conversation on youtube, many of which go on for two and a half or three and a half hours!
Here’s the link to the conversation at Mercy Culture Church:
Two Reports about his misconduct:
Both reports are filled with logic and evidence (emails, texts, recordings, posts on social media, and eyewitness testimony of those who lived through it). The evidence is devastating.
Personal note: I have been part of the Charismatic Renewal since 1973. I have never left it. And yes, I too can hear from God, from time to time. In fact, I heard from him to write and post this article. I write as an insider, not a hostile outsider.
Let’s get started.
0:51: Heather Schott says Dr. Brown has not gone public this entire time
Wrong. He has posted things and even published his autobiography, which he distributed only to his subscribers because the larger public protested. The publisher withdrew the book.
Any chance he would interrupt her and tell her the whole story?
01:30: He has not wanted to humiliate the two women Kim and Sarah, so keep things discreet
He has covered things up and told Mike Winger, just to cite one example, that Sarah’s counselor has planted these ideas in her mind. Read the two reports!
02:26: Other podcasts just want clicks and likes in their self-righteousness, to build their platforms.
She needs to place a mirror in front of her.
02:54: She and Landon have had a personal relationship with Dr. Brown for over ten years.. He’s completely devoted to the Lord.
Landon and Heather have lost their objectivity. They should be impartial.
04:47: Dr. Brown asked Heather and Landon to pray about the accusations. Hear from God. Are they true? They (supposedly) heard from God. Brown is innocent and awesome.
This is hyper-charismatic nonsense. Read the two reports. Use simple logic and evidence. I believe the witnesses, who have nothing to gain (unlike Dr. Brown who yearns to get back into the spotlight, so money and attention can flow in again). All of the evidence and testimonies are devastating.
No one can hear from God with perfect clarity, even though Landon and Heather think they can. This is dangerous and can lead to self-deception. “We know in part and prophesy in part” (1 Cor. 13:9). All words must be judged (1 Cor. 14:29). Dr. Brown said that God spoke to him that Julie Roys would not post the article. But she did. He did not hear from God. The Schotts should have also judged their own words as false. Use logic and evidence next time. Read the two reports!
07:56: He’s not defending himself. It’s for the gospel. He’ll explain things point by point, but he won’t defend himself.
Contradictions everywhere.
08:38: He told two intercessors “everything” They replied, Where’s the scandal? One of them heard from God instantly.
Read the two reports! They are devastating.
09:11: Heather claims lies and witchcraft and slander. Unseat principalities and powers!
More hyper-charismatic nonsense that over-spiritualizes things. No human can unseat them. Only God will, at his Son’s Second Coming.
The two reports have evidence. Many witnesses, in addition to Kim and Sarah, have been abused by Dr. and Mrs. Brown. Read the Cantor Report, in their own words.
13:00: Quick tears and an abnormal life from Dr. Brown. He and Nancy were enjoying life. Everything is under the blood. But now the Browns are upset and shocked.
Yes, I imagine these past months have been devastating. Yes, God’s forgiveness is absolute for the genuinely repentant. But this has nothing to do with being in leadership. The two reports throws everything into doubt.
14:30: He worked too hard. Emotionally drained. The college split took its toll on him.
Pastor John Kilpatrick fired (“released”) Dr. Brown. He caused the split. Students who witnessed it have testified that it was devastating. But nothing will get in the way of Dr. Brown’s quest to be a National Revolutionary Leader.
He was building a house while the staff was not getting paid. In the Cantor Report, Missy Cava testifies that the school staff were not getting paid, but the Browns held Christmas parties in their “mansion” (her word). So it does not seem the Browns were suffering all that much.
17:40: He and Kim had the phone and in-person communications under control, but not the emails. He also checked his notes to see the dates.
Having his notes ready looks like self-defense to me. He’s implying that they did not have sexual phone conversations. But they did.
18:25, 24:00: He didn’t go public with his sin with Kim because he does not want to uncover Nancy. He told some leaders in private. He writhed and wailed on the floor in private, before Nancy. Ray, husband of Kim, gave him permission not to go to the leaders. Everything is reconciled.
Another, better reason for not going public: he would have been fired from the school he had started because he imposed on the single and married students an extremely strict code of conduct. Being fired would have devastated his quest to be a National Revolutionary Leader. The money would have dried up. Maybe they might have even had to sell their mansion.
22:50: It grieves and hurts Dr. Brown that all these things have come out now because Ray is hurt.
No. Ray recently wrote a long post denouncing Dr. Brown’s bending the narrative. Ray said that Dr. Brown told Kim to stop having relations with her husband.
24:40: Dr. Brown said he should have stepped down from leadership. He consulted other leaders for advice and counsel. Nancy did not want him to go public. He and she went to intensive counseling for a week.
However, in the Cantor Report Dr. Bob Gladstone said he only found out about all the mess, just in 2024. Dr. Gladstone was a main leader at the school. So with whom did Dr. Brown consult?
And he should have stepped down, but that would have devasted his quest to be the National Revolutionary Leader. So he did not. The money would have dried up. Sell the mansion too?
27:18-38:08: The three hosts get emotional and forceful and preach forgiveness and condemn the exposure ministries. Dr. Brown can be restored. The blood covers all sins.
Yes, the blood covers sins, but the issue is about returning to ministry. If he had publicly repented years ago, as he said he should have, then God would have humbled him and then possibly restored him. However, after 20+ years of cover-ups and lying about Kim and Sarah, he cannot return. Read the two reports. Yes, redemption before God is possible, but restoration to ministry? No.
Don’t be fooled by the three hosts’ strong personalities and emotional words.
For the record, I have a post about being restored to ministry, but certain conditions must be met:
Can Fallen Church Leaders Be Restored to Ministry?
38:24: Has the Brown’s marriage been restored?
Yes, everything is beautiful. Nancy has the right to forgive him. No complaints from me.
39:45: Dr. Brown will lead the world in proclaiming that God has redeemed him and set him up to be an example to the world.
Ego again.
40:50: He had a strict code of conduct at the school, just like other schools. He would have been willing to forgive if the expelled students stayed local.
In the Cantor Report, one student testified that a pastor suggested to the youth to go see the Matrix for its spiritual lessons. The Browns found out and kicked her out of school, even though she had begged for mercy with tears. No redemption. Also Cantor says that Dr. Brown had students in his hotel room watching videos of Woodstock, where there was nudity. No repercussions for him.
At 1:36 Dr. Brown denies he did this. No nudity in the documentary.
Read the two reports. These are eyewitness testimonies from people who were there.
41:54: Now the video transitions to Sarah Monk. She related to him as a “daddy.” It was her initiative to call him daddy. He never had sexual thoughts but looked at her as a daughter. No sex. He acted innocently. He gave her swats on her behind. He never met secretly with her and held hands. Willing to take a lie detector test. Nancy told him to pick things up at WalMart and he and Sarah met there. Innocent. Cody asked him why Brown needed to clear his head. Brown zigzags back and forth between kiss on Sarah’s forehead and lips.
Heather talks about how she and Landon kissed girls on the forehead and was there during births.
Reply: A leader at the school saw him and Sarah at WalMart and questioned it.
44:08: Dr. Brown says he never had a sexual thought towards Sarah.
Any man who butt-slaps, kisses on the lips and allows a young woman who is not his daughter to sit on his lap and not thinks sexual thoughts is not believable. He is covering up. His denial does not ring true. Gaslighting.
45:15: He gave Sarah a backhanded swat on her butt. In other places in the interview he says “flick.”
But Sarah says it was a swat. He did it many times. I believe her. Dr. Brown is the one who has changed his story. At first it was a flick on her lower back. Then it became a flick on her rear end. It was done once. Then a few times. Confused storyline.
50:00: Cody does not believe the podcasters–the “mob”–who promote purity culture. He does lap-sitting and kissing on the foreheads and lips and flicking butts with his daughters; his oldest is 15. Then he revealed the smoking gun at 50:55. He would not do those things with a woman who is not his daughter.
Is Cody actually putting down purity culture? And he is right that he would not do those things with a woman who is not his daughter. It’s a sure thing that Cody’s wife would not approve. But Dr. Brown did those things to Sarah, who is not his daughter.
52:00: Heather says church culture and the larger culture is hyper-sensitive. Young women need affection so they won’t be afraid of men later on.
One way to get them to be scared of men: show them affection as Dr. Brown did to Sarah. Terrible and degraded “wisdom” coming from Heather. Does she think we’re stupid? If you work at a business or a state school (as I have done) and do those things, you would be fired for sexual harassment. And the business and school standards are right, not hyper-sensitive.
53:00: Booyens now preaches that the exposure ministries are false and dishonest.
He’s wrong. They are raised up by God himself.
55:40: Dr. Brown disputes the credibility of the witnesses who saw Sarah sit on his lap. He never groped her as she sat on his lap. He lays on the ground weeping in private repentance. With quick tears he’s suffering because his grandkids may find out.
Maybe he never groped her, but Sarah said the lap-sitting happened. I believe the two witnesses who saw it. No doubt he lays on the floor weeping. His grandkids may find out, as they get older. But he should have publicly repented many years ago.
58:50: Brown says Sarah returned home to get in a relationship with an unsaved man.
Sarah in a post says that this never happened. I believe her.
1:01-1:08: Brown says that Sarah told Ron Cantor that she was disgusted with the whole thing, and that’s why she left Pensacola. But then Dr Brown reads notes from Sarah about good memories at Pensacola. He does not want to speak against Sarah. He has taken full ownership all along the way.
She left because she was confused. She saw the sexual note Dr. Brown wrote down on a yellow legal pad about Kim. Bad memories can also be delayed, as she makes connections about abuse. She later realized, after she heard other testimonies of clergy sexual abuse, that Dr. Brown had abused her. Again, if all the physical contact had happened at a state school or business, this would have been called sexual harassment. He would have been fired. The world cannot be wiser than the church.
Full ownership? No, he has covered it up and told half-truths many times until he was cornered.
1:08: He has lived with perfect integrity. He implies Matthew 18 was the solution. He wanted to meet with Sarah.
Eyewitness testimony says that he has not acted with perfect integrity. He has denied or trimmed the truth until he was cornered. No one should meet with her abuser.
Stop Weaponizing Matthew 18 against Victims of Clergy Abuse
1:14: Heather says Sarah’s story has changed.
This implies that Sarah is unstable and lying. No, she has come to the realization later in life that Dr. Brown committed clergy sexual abuse. The Firefly Report says this, after interviewing many people. It also says he has deflected the truth to hide and protect his ministry.
Read the two reports. They contradict what Brown is saying.
1:15: Now Heather moves the conversation to Ron Cantor. Dr. Brown says he does not want to say anything negative about Cantor. Dr. Brown once again proclaims that he has a pure heart. Then he does question Cantor’s motives.
Dr. Brown zigzags. He keeps checking notes. So he is defending himself.
1:17: He wrote down the sexual conversation he had with Kim. For “some reason” Sarah was rummaging through the drawers at his house. (She was dog-sitting. She wanted to leave him a “dad” note). She found the sexual words in the drawer next to his bed. He had written down Kim’s words on a yellow legal pad to keep a record that she initiated things. He was surprised when she said those sexual words to him.
What is he talking about, “surprised”? They had phone sex. Both of them. Read the Firefly Report. He is not the innocent record keeper to legally protect himself from a sexual aggressor. Now that’s angering to me (and I’m not connected to the principals). He’s gaslighting and changing the narrative, to Kim’s detriment. He threw her under the bus. Awful!
And I wonder why Nancy did not find the legal pad. If she did, why keep it around?
1:18: Nancy and Dr. Brown and Sarah had a conversation shortly afterwards. Kim was discussed. Nancy believes this is the damaging thing for Sarah. She had looked up to him but here are the words from Kim in his drawer.
Yes, I’m sure she was upset.
1:19: Dr. Brown says people have recruited Sarah for their own purposes and convinced her that she experienced clergy sexual abuse. Then they show an excerpt of Ron Cantor that says he had to convince Sarah she has suffered abuse.
The truth is that Dr. Brown did commit clergy sexual abuse. He would have been fired from a normal school or business. Her mind got clearer as she got older. Ron Cantor told her that she really was abused. She had not recognize it at first. Then it hit her. She really was abused. Read the Firefly Report.
1:22: Booyens steps in and says Satan wants this conversation to keep going to distract us from trafficking children. So let’s ignore Dr. Brown’s own sins. Then Heather steps in and says to focus on real victims. Booyens: SCOTUS Justice Brett Kavanaugh all over again. It’s not about Sarah for the exposure ministries. They don’t care about her.
We can do two things at the same time–help trafficked children and expose abuse and embezzlement in the church. And the exposure ministries are doing the work of God to purge the church from all the abuse. Julie Roys is a hero for the kingdom of God.
1:24: Booyens yells about children being sexually abused. Let’s not be distracted by Satan with the Dr. Brown’s sexual abuse case. Heather steps in and says if you want to be an advocate, then be one for a real victim.
This implies that Sarah is not a real victim. This is wrong. She is a victim, and her story needs to be heard.
1:28: Now Dr. Brown criticizes the Firefly Report. It says there was no clergy sexual abuse, says Cody. And Dr. Brown defends his trip to a foreign country, where persecution occurs, during the investigation. He then goes to Singapore and a pastor befriends him. Heather steps in and says Dr. Brown has been harassed. Dr. Brown questions whether the accusers know Jesus.
Of course he would knock the report. Cody is wrong to say there is no clergy sexual abuse in the Firefly Report. That’s exactly what the report says. How dare the exposure ministries complete their mission to expose abuse! Of course they should do this. They are doing God’s work. They also expose other abusers, so Dr. Brown is not the only one.
1:36: Dr. Brown denies that he showed nudity in the Woodstock documentary.
Eyewitnesses say he showed this documentary in a hotel room with students. I believe them.
1:39: He was glad the elders said he should resume ministry.
But recently it looks as though the board resigned, probably after the interview. This certainly looks bad from the outside.
Roys Report: Has Michael Brown Lost His Entire Board?
1:41: Dr. Brown is a good man who never abused anyone. He’s willing to turn over his emails and texts and communications. They’ll prove him innocent.
Who are you going to believe? I believe the witnesses. And did he delete the evidence? He threw away the words he had written down from Kim. Yet he said he needed to keep it to be a witness to her initiative.
Inconsistent. He is also portraying himself as a victim and Kim as the aggressor again. What a manipulator of the true narrative!
1:44: He denies that he had porn on his phone that one of his (anonymous) interns found. It never happened. We need to show love to each other. Anonymous testimonies are suspect.
I believe the anonymous eyewitness. He did not want to come out in public.Typically anonymous witnesses prefer to give their testimony and move on
1:46: Heather intervenes and reminds everyone that Dr. Brown did not have sexual thoughts towards Sarah. Never! Booyens says Satan is redefining sexual abuse. He yells his beliefs. It’s a satanic plot to paint with a broad brush. The entire story has the fingerprints of Satan all over it. The Firefly Report would not stand up in court. Dr. Brown cannot repent of things he never did.
I believe the two reports because of the eyewitness testimony. No man can can slap a butt and have lap-sitting and kisses on the lips and not think sexually when the woman is not the man’s daughter. As noted at 44:08, this seems non-believable to me. His denial does not ring true.
Does Heather expect us to believe that she would allow her husband Landon to swat (or flick) a twenty-year-old’s butt, ask her to sit on his lap, and kiss her on the lips, when she is not his daughter? What if she was on staff at the church? His secretary? No, sorry. That’s gaslighting. If Landon walked up behind any woman and flicked her on the butt, this would be sexual assault. If he did this to someone those two knew, it would still be sexual assault if the woman had a mind to report it.
1:50: He has not lifted a finger to defend himself. He believes that Sarah believes that what she says is true.
He implies that Sarah’s story is not based on objective reality but on her own faulty memory and inconsistent, changing story. She has convinced herself to believe her own story.
1:53: He transitions to Haiti. Dr. Brown “severed ties” (not fired) with a man who made the students uncomfortable at the school. He did not warn the orphanage in Haiti. No clue that the man was a sexual predator. The FBI or ICE never found proof of sexual abuse in Haiti. He didn’t know the abuser worked at the Haiti orphanage: “To my knowledge.” He denies that he told the moms not to take legal action.
It sounds like a lawyer advised him, and with good reason because these are serious charges. The moms who adopted some Haitian kids have receipts and emails from Dr. Brown that say that they should not take legal action at this time. Read the Cantor Report and their stories. Other exposure ministries have interviewed them. But the moms did not listen to him and took action anyway. And he knew about the sexual predator and even called a school assembly to discuss it.
Wake Up and Win just posted a video that is devastating:
1:58: Booyens is yelling again, and then Heather warns everyone who is gossiping and taking a Jezebel message to the social media platforms. Dr. Brown’s friends should speak up and defend him. Once again the Jezebel Report. Everyone who spreads this nonsense will be judged. Heather does not want to stand next to them on judgment day.
This is empty nonsense from loud and proud interviewers. They’re implying that Julie Roys is a Jezebel. She’s not. She a kingdom hero to expose corruption and sin in the church.
2:02: His lawyers say that the Roys Report went too far about Haiti. More people need to speak to defend Dr. Brown and stop the false accusations. Dr. Brown is in tears because he has heard Nancy in a room at home weeping.
I hope she is not sobbing because she feels betrayed by Sarah or Ron Cantor. No, Mrs. Brown mistreated students and staff at the school. She did not pay staffers for months, while she lived in a newly built mansion. Read the Ron Cantor Report. Many testimonies, written in the witnesses’ own words, speak of how Mrs. Brown and Dr. Brown were bad managers and leaders. I hope her sobbing is a sign of true repentance.
More friends will probably step up … Or not.
2:05: Dr. Brown wanted to stop the publication of his autobiography during this season, but the publisher said the date was locked in.
But they did withdraw the book. Dr. Brown sent the copies that were published to his supporters just to thank them. Nothing was locked in, and it looks like bad judgment to send the printed copies to his supporters.
If he wants to be an example of how God can redeem a man from heavy trials, then he should wait to include these accusations in his book. Not including the worst and hardest trial of his life in his book looks evasive, as if the reports are unimportant and easily dismissed.
2:06: Confetti was innocent. He was honored because the students at the Mercy Culture school love him. Heather goes on to say he should never have had to step down in the first place. He should never have done an investigation. There was no sin for twenty-four years. Mercy Culture celebrates him.
Confetti? It looks bad, but they don’t care. Heather, read the Cantor report, if you don’t believe the Firefly Report. Dr. Brown did wrong.
2:10: Dr. Brown says he has laid low. He is humble and quiet. God will use him as an example. Satan, not God, dredges up the past, if genuine repentance takes place. Tears again from Dr. Brown.
Okay, if you say you were humble. So many eyewitnesses say he has not genuinely repented throughout the past twenty-four years. He covered things up until he was cornered. Read the testimonies of those who have dealt with him, in the Cantor Report, in their own words.
2:15: Booyens honors Nancy. She forgave Mike, so we should forgive him too. Cody also questions the exposure ministries. He implies, without naming them, that Ron Cantor and Julie Roys are parasites off of other ministries. Heather: Demonic and no logic.
I’m sure Nancy has suffered. And I’m glad she has forgiven him, and their marriage has survived.
Ron Cantor and Julie Roys are heroes. Nothing demonic or illogical about them or other exposure ministries.
2:18: Heather prays for Dr. Brown. And she prays that God would silence the gossipers and slanderers. Rebuke the lies of Jezebel.
Better prayer: May God keep Julie Roys and the other exposure ministries going. They are being used by God to expose the abuse of children and corruption in the church. May they receive strength to expose clergy sexual abuse. May God correct hyper-charismatic churches like Mercy Culture. God, reveal their arrogance and self-deception.
2:28: Heather excuses Dr. Brown and now she, Cody, and Booyens will deal with the church, warning it. It looks like a full hour is coming. Do I want to listen to them?
Here are the remaining segments:
02:28:09 The Dangers of Virtual Justice 02:31:55 The True Meaning of Accountability 02:34:03 The Power of Media and False Prophets 02:35:49 The Narcissism of False Prophets 02:43:53 The Grooming of Society 02:48:27 Satan’s Games and Roman Distractions 02:48:52 The Church’s Complicity 02:49:51 Victimhood and Exploitation 02:51:27 The Impact on True Victims 02:57:18 The Role of Men and Fathers 02:58:05 The Power of Forgiveness and Redemption 02:58:51 Justice and Truth in the Church 03:09:09 The Accuser of the Brethren 03:18:02 A Call for Repentance and Revival 03:21:44 Final Thoughts and Prayers
2:37: They play a clip of Ron Cantor admitting he is arrogant. Therefore he is discredited.
No, he said this in the context of watching himself. They took him out of context. Maybe the three interviewers are accusers of the brothers. Maybe this is slander too.
I read the transcript of the remaining video, and the three interviewers miscalculate what God is doing in the church. He is rooting out corruption. The exposure ministries are not on Jezebel’s side. I say that the big ministries that protect their own are not on God’s side. The exposure ministries with their small platforms are working for God. David against Goliath. If according to the three hosts the exposure ministries’ motives are impure and they just seek attention, then what about the mega-ministries and churches? How are their motives pure?
Assessment
I admit I have a soft spot in my heart for Dr. Brown. He really made a needless mess for himself. He is living through hell. I believe he really does seek God in prayer (or so he keeps telling his radio audience). But he should have humbled himself and confessed everything to the school, when the sins happened. Ron Cantor says the students admired him greatly. Who knows? They may have forgiven him. Or not. Either way, God would have truly exalted him because he shows favor to the humble (1 Peter 5:5).
But he did not humble himself at the time. Those who wrote down their testimony in the Cantor Report and those who confronted him say that he tried to cover things up until he was cornered. This is not true repentance. He tried to micromanage the narrative, and now it has slipped away from him. He is frustrated.
After thinking about his answers, I believe he is confused. To me, this is a sign that he is under God’s judgment. His ministry and persona have been very arrogant as he thirsted for attention and his national revolutionary leadership role. God is taking him down, because he skipped over some steps. He steamrolled over people to get there. This is clear from his answers even now.
Listening to Heather and Cody and Booyens was a chore. They are loud and proud and cocky, though Cody calmed down. They do not have the leadership calling or knowledge to lecture the American church on how we are wrong about Dr. Brown. What if they’re wrong? Booyens is too excitable and a little irrational. He shouts. Apparently they can hear from God with perfect clarity. And God told them Dr. Brown is innocent and is being slandered. Reply: They are hyper-charismatics. Read the stories written by those who lived through it, in the Cantor Report, in their own words.
Mercy Culture Church also comes across as hyper-charismatic, due to Landon Schott. In the long video, the three pastors often spoke of logic. Well, it seems to have eluded them.They threw it out when it did not suit them.
Should Dr. Brown be restored to ministry? In the Cantor Report, Dr. Gladstone says no because he had recently read and investigated everything. He was a close friend and colleague of Dr. Brown. Though I don’t know him, he has a great reputation. I’ll take his opinion over those of Heather, Cody, Booyens, and Brown.
But it does not matter. Dr. Brown will return no matter what anyone says. He claims that he will never defend himself ever again. Maybe. But I predict he will. He tends to make sweeping claims and then backpedals. He zigzags, showing his confusion.
I counsel and urge anyone reading this post not to support or listen to him. He is not a wise man. He may be a genuine scholar of the Old Testament, but he is not a national leader. He is a teacher and evangelist (to his fellow Jews) with a radio show. If he stays in that lane, God may use him again. But I believe he is pushing his way back into the spotlight beyond God’s new restrictive call on his life. People, withdraw your support!
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